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	<title>Betabeat &#187; creepsquad</title>
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		<title>Reddit CEO in Memo Leaked to Gawker: &#8216;We Are Not Going to Ban Distasteful Subreddits&#8217;</title>

		<comments>http://betabeat.com/2012/10/reddit-ceo-in-memo-leaked-to-gawker-we-are-not-going-to-ban-distasteful-subreddits/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Tue, 16 Oct 2012 23:24:17 -0400</pubDate>
					<link>http://betabeat.com/2012/10/reddit-ceo-in-memo-leaked-to-gawker-we-are-not-going-to-ban-distasteful-subreddits/</link>
			<dc:creator>Jessica Roy</dc:creator>
				
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betabeat.com/?p=66718</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p><div id="attachment_66719" class="wp-caption alignleft" style="width: 310px"><a href="http://nyobetabeat.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/yishan_wong1.jpeg"><img class="size-medium wp-image-66719" title="yishan_wong1" alt="" src="http://nyobetabeat.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/yishan_wong1.jpeg?w=300" height="277" width="300" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Reddit CEO Yishan Wong. (Photo: Reddit)</p></div></p>
<p>As the <a href="http://betabeat.com/2012/10/violentacrez-takes-to-reddit-to-solicit-sympathy-paypal-donations/">story</a> of notorious Reddit user Violentacrez and the <a href="http://betabeat.com/2012/10/reddit-bans-creepshots-and-creepsquad-the-subreddits-that-fueled-its-war-with-gawker/">controversial subreddits</a> he moderated sinks its tentacles into the greater internet, Reddit administrators--known for their <em>laissez-faire</em> attitude toward site moderation--have remained astonishingly mum. In conversations with Betabeat, Reddit general manager Erik Martin gave little indication as to how Reddit intends to handle the Violentacrez and Creepshots fracas, except to admit that two of the subreddits had been <a href="http://betabeat.com/2012/10/reddit-bans-creepshots-and-creepsquad-the-subreddits-that-fueled-its-war-with-gawker/">banned</a> by admins.</p>
<p>But a thread <a href="http://gawker.com/5952349/">published</a> by Reddit CEO Yishan Wong, posted to a private subreddit for moderators and obtained by Gawker, sheds some light on Reddit's intentions toward the controversial content on its platform:</p>
<p><!--more--></p>
<blockquote><p>We stand for free speech. This means we are not going to ban distasteful subreddits. We will not ban legal content even if we find it odious or if we personally condemn it. Not because that's the law in the United States - because as many people have pointed out, privately-owned forums are under no obligation to uphold it - but because we believe in that ideal independently, and that's what we want to promote on our platform. We are clarifying that now because in the past it wasn't clear, and (to be honest) in the past we were not completely independent and there were other pressures acting on reddit. Now it's just reddit, and we serve the community, we serve the ideals of free speech, and we hope to ultimately be a universal platform for human discourse (cat pictures are a form of discourse).</p></blockquote>
<p>As Gawker <a href="http://gawker.com/5952349/">notes</a>, Mr. Wong did not mention Violentacrez by name in his note, nor did he directly address the myriad issues surrounding controversial subreddits like Creepshots. Instead, he reiterated the policies established following last year's shuttering of the subreddit <a href="http://www.dailytech.com/Reddit+rJailbait+Shut+Down+After+User+Posts+Child+Porn/article22992.htm">Jailbait</a>, a forum for users to post sexualized photos of minors:</p>
<blockquote><p>We will ban illegal content, and in addition sexualized pictures of minors, immediately upon any reports to us. We gave our rationale for that back when that issue was resolved, and we will maintain that policy for the same reasons.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is where Reddit continues to draw the line: it will not ban sexist, misogynistic or racist content, but it will ban anything illegal, as well as images of minors that could be considered "sexualized." That means Creepshots--however offensive it may be--is here to stay. This is because the vast majority of photos posted in Creepshots and its ilk are taken legally and--when moderated properly--do not break any of Reddit's rules.</p>
<p>Oh, and Mr. Wong even provided a handy little TL;DR for moderators with a case of ADD:</p>
<blockquote><p>TL;DR: We stand for freedom of speech. We will uphold existing rules against posting dox on reddit. But the reality is those rules end at our platform, and we will respect journalism as a form of speech that we don't ban. We believe further change can come only from example-setting.</p></blockquote>
<p>Mr. Wong was tapped as Reddit's <a href="http://betabeat.com/2012/03/reddit-yishan-wong-ceo/">unconventional CEO</a> back in March, after the "front page of the internet" was spun out from its corporate handlers, Advance Publications. Just after publishing the post, he said he was going to "nip off for a spot of tea," because he apparently moonlights as Mrs. Doubtfire.</p>
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><div id="attachment_66719" class="wp-caption alignleft" style="width: 310px"><a href="http://nyobetabeat.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/yishan_wong1.jpeg"><img class="size-medium wp-image-66719" title="yishan_wong1" alt="" src="http://nyobetabeat.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/yishan_wong1.jpeg?w=300" height="277" width="300" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">Reddit CEO Yishan Wong. (Photo: Reddit)</p></div></p>
<p>As the <a href="http://betabeat.com/2012/10/violentacrez-takes-to-reddit-to-solicit-sympathy-paypal-donations/">story</a> of notorious Reddit user Violentacrez and the <a href="http://betabeat.com/2012/10/reddit-bans-creepshots-and-creepsquad-the-subreddits-that-fueled-its-war-with-gawker/">controversial subreddits</a> he moderated sinks its tentacles into the greater internet, Reddit administrators--known for their <em>laissez-faire</em> attitude toward site moderation--have remained astonishingly mum. In conversations with Betabeat, Reddit general manager Erik Martin gave little indication as to how Reddit intends to handle the Violentacrez and Creepshots fracas, except to admit that two of the subreddits had been <a href="http://betabeat.com/2012/10/reddit-bans-creepshots-and-creepsquad-the-subreddits-that-fueled-its-war-with-gawker/">banned</a> by admins.</p>
<p>But a thread <a href="http://gawker.com/5952349/">published</a> by Reddit CEO Yishan Wong, posted to a private subreddit for moderators and obtained by Gawker, sheds some light on Reddit's intentions toward the controversial content on its platform:</p>
<p><!--more--></p>
<blockquote><p>We stand for free speech. This means we are not going to ban distasteful subreddits. We will not ban legal content even if we find it odious or if we personally condemn it. Not because that's the law in the United States - because as many people have pointed out, privately-owned forums are under no obligation to uphold it - but because we believe in that ideal independently, and that's what we want to promote on our platform. We are clarifying that now because in the past it wasn't clear, and (to be honest) in the past we were not completely independent and there were other pressures acting on reddit. Now it's just reddit, and we serve the community, we serve the ideals of free speech, and we hope to ultimately be a universal platform for human discourse (cat pictures are a form of discourse).</p></blockquote>
<p>As Gawker <a href="http://gawker.com/5952349/">notes</a>, Mr. Wong did not mention Violentacrez by name in his note, nor did he directly address the myriad issues surrounding controversial subreddits like Creepshots. Instead, he reiterated the policies established following last year's shuttering of the subreddit <a href="http://www.dailytech.com/Reddit+rJailbait+Shut+Down+After+User+Posts+Child+Porn/article22992.htm">Jailbait</a>, a forum for users to post sexualized photos of minors:</p>
<blockquote><p>We will ban illegal content, and in addition sexualized pictures of minors, immediately upon any reports to us. We gave our rationale for that back when that issue was resolved, and we will maintain that policy for the same reasons.</p></blockquote>
<p>This is where Reddit continues to draw the line: it will not ban sexist, misogynistic or racist content, but it will ban anything illegal, as well as images of minors that could be considered "sexualized." That means Creepshots--however offensive it may be--is here to stay. This is because the vast majority of photos posted in Creepshots and its ilk are taken legally and--when moderated properly--do not break any of Reddit's rules.</p>
<p>Oh, and Mr. Wong even provided a handy little TL;DR for moderators with a case of ADD:</p>
<blockquote><p>TL;DR: We stand for freedom of speech. We will uphold existing rules against posting dox on reddit. But the reality is those rules end at our platform, and we will respect journalism as a form of speech that we don't ban. We believe further change can come only from example-setting.</p></blockquote>
<p>Mr. Wong was tapped as Reddit's <a href="http://betabeat.com/2012/03/reddit-yishan-wong-ceo/">unconventional CEO</a> back in March, after the "front page of the internet" was spun out from its corporate handlers, Advance Publications. Just after publishing the post, he said he was going to "nip off for a spot of tea," because he apparently moonlights as Mrs. Doubtfire.</p>
]]></content:encoded>
		<wfw:commentRss>http://betabeat.com/2012/10/reddit-ceo-in-memo-leaked-to-gawker-we-are-not-going-to-ban-distasteful-subreddits/feed/</wfw:commentRss>
		<slash:comments>1</slash:comments>
	
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		<title>Reddit Bans Creepshots and Creepsquad, the Subreddits That Fueled Its &#8216;War&#8217; With Gawker</title>

		<comments>http://betabeat.com/2012/10/reddit-bans-creepshots-and-creepsquad-the-subreddits-that-fueled-its-war-with-gawker/#comments</comments>
		<pubDate>Thu, 11 Oct 2012 20:41:45 -0400</pubDate>
					<link>http://betabeat.com/2012/10/reddit-bans-creepshots-and-creepsquad-the-subreddits-that-fueled-its-war-with-gawker/</link>
			<dc:creator>Jessica Roy</dc:creator>
				
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://betabeat.com/?p=66145</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[<p><div id="attachment_66149" class="wp-caption alignleft" style="width: 310px"><a href="http://nyobetabeat.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/screen-shot-2012-10-11-at-6-18-02-pm.png"><img class="size-medium wp-image-66149" title="Screen shot 2012-10-11 at 6.18.02 PM" alt="" src="http://nyobetabeat.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/screen-shot-2012-10-11-at-6-18-02-pm.png?w=300" height="296" width="300" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">(Photo: Reddit)</p></div></p>
<p>For the last few hours, the controversial subreddit <a href="http://www.reddit.com/r/creepshots">Creepshots</a>--which is<a href="http://betabeat.com/2012/10/reddit-readies-for-brewing-inter-website-war-bans-links-to-gawker-media/"> at the center of an "inter-website war</a>" over photos users published of non-consenting women--has been inaccessible.</p>
<p>The message "This subreddit has been banned" is affixed front and center. The banned page notes that the subreddit may have been caught in the site's spam filter, but Reddit general manager Erik Martin confirmed to Betabeat that a moderator from Creepshots asked an admin to ban the subreddit.</p>
<p><!--more--></p>
<p><strong>Previously: <a href="http://betabeat.com/2012/10/reddit-readies-for-brewing-inter-website-war-bans-links-to-gawker-media/">Reddit Readies for Brewing 'Inter-Website War'; Major Subreddits Ban Link to Gawker Media</a></strong></p>
<p>Creepshots' former members immediately flocked to <a href="http://www.reddit.com/r/creepsquad">r/Creepsquad</a>, set up for refugees of the shuttered subreddit. Now, Mr. Martin has also confirmed to Betabeat that Reddit administrators have decided--without moderator request--to ban Creepsquad as well. It went dark around 8 p.m. this evening.</p>
<p>Mr. Martin, who is still on the Reddit Open Internet <a href="http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/09/11/reddit-launches-midwest-bus-tour-campaign-open-internet-asks-donations/">bus tour</a>, declined to elaborate why the subreddit had been banned.</p>
<p>Earlier this evening, the moderators of Creepsquad published a photo of Jezebel journalist Katie J.M. Baker to the front page of the subreddit, perhaps in an effort to intimidate her. Ms. Baker has been the target of Reddit backlash following a <a href="http://jezebel.com/5949379/naming-names-is-this-the-solution-to-combat-reddits-creepshots">story</a> she published yesterday featuring an interview with the anonymous woman behind Predditors, a Tumblr that publishes the personal information of Creepshots members who have been publishing photos of women without their consent. <a href="http://www.predditors.com/">Predditors</a> was removed by Tumblr, but has since been <a href="http://betabeat.com/2012/10/tumblr-reinstates-predditors-the-controversial-blog-publishing-personal-information-about-members-of-rcreepshots/">reinstated</a> after a Tumblr spokesman said it was mistakenly believed to be revealing private information. Tumblr users have been passing around a <a href="http://fuckyeahreborns.tumblr.com/post/33410822048/master-list-of-reddit-creeps-pedos">master list</a> of the "Predditors" after the author password-protected the original Tumblr.</p>
<p><strong>Previously: <a href="http://betabeat.com/2012/10/tumblr-reinstates-predditors-the-controversial-blog-publishing-personal-information-about-members-of-rcreepshots/">Tumblr Reinstates Predditors, the Controversial Blog Publishing Personal Info About Redditors Behind Creepshots</a></strong></p>
<p>Ms. Baker appears to be taking it all in stride. "Flattered that moderators of r/Creepsquad respect me enough to put a photo of me on the main page of their subreddit!" she coyly <a href="https://twitter.com/katiejmbaker/status/256514068356149248">tweeted</a>.</p>
<p>The removal of Creepsquad by Reddit admins comes as somewhat of a surprise. In an <a href="http://www.buzzfeed.com/jwherrman/reddit-general-manager-explains-why-he-wont-ban-c">interview</a> with Buzzfeed earlier today, Mr. Martin emphasized that Reddit does not remove content unless it violates one of Reddit's five <a href="http://www.reddit.com/rules">rules</a>. That implies that Creepsquad was removed because it violated one of those tenets, though he did not offer any details other than to admit it was removed by administrators.</p>
<p>There is precedent for banning subreddits. Last year, Reddit found itself embroiled in a <a href="http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/technolog/reddit-bans-sexual-images-children-teens-157880">controversy</a> over r/jailbait, a subreddit where users posted sexualized photos of minors. Reddit subsequently <a href="http://www.reddit.com/r/blog/comments/pmj7f/a_necessary_change_in_policy/">updated</a> its policy to include a new rule.</p>
<p><strong>UPDATE: </strong></p>
<p>Reddit community manager and site admin David Croach has banned Potato_in_my_anus, the maturely-named user who created the now-banned subreddit Creepsquad. In a thread on Subreddit Drama, Mr. Croach <a href="http://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/11c4j3/admins_have_shadow_banned_upotato_in_my_anus/c6l5w5o?context=2">wrote</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>Regarding PIMA's ban...</p>
<p>There are actually a lot of rules that we (the admins) recently found out when we investigated his (PIMA's) account that he had broken. The most recent one was creating a subreddit that disregarded the rules of reddit regarding sexualizing teens/minors, and not being active in moderating posts that broke that rule. He's had multiple offenses in that category.</p></blockquote>
<p>Here is a screenshot of the photo that Creepsquad posted of Ms. Baker, without comment, to the front page of the subreddit:</p>
<p><div id="attachment_66153" class="wp-caption aligncenter" style="width: 322px"><a href="http://nyobetabeat.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/screen-shot-2012-10-11-at-6-22-10-pm.png"><img class="size-full wp-image-66153" title="Screen shot 2012-10-11 at 6.22.10 PM" alt="" src="http://nyobetabeat.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/screen-shot-2012-10-11-at-6-22-10-pm.png" height="673" width="312" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">(Photo: Reddit)</p></div></p>
]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><div id="attachment_66149" class="wp-caption alignleft" style="width: 310px"><a href="http://nyobetabeat.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/screen-shot-2012-10-11-at-6-18-02-pm.png"><img class="size-medium wp-image-66149" title="Screen shot 2012-10-11 at 6.18.02 PM" alt="" src="http://nyobetabeat.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/screen-shot-2012-10-11-at-6-18-02-pm.png?w=300" height="296" width="300" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">(Photo: Reddit)</p></div></p>
<p>For the last few hours, the controversial subreddit <a href="http://www.reddit.com/r/creepshots">Creepshots</a>--which is<a href="http://betabeat.com/2012/10/reddit-readies-for-brewing-inter-website-war-bans-links-to-gawker-media/"> at the center of an "inter-website war</a>" over photos users published of non-consenting women--has been inaccessible.</p>
<p>The message "This subreddit has been banned" is affixed front and center. The banned page notes that the subreddit may have been caught in the site's spam filter, but Reddit general manager Erik Martin confirmed to Betabeat that a moderator from Creepshots asked an admin to ban the subreddit.</p>
<p><!--more--></p>
<p><strong>Previously: <a href="http://betabeat.com/2012/10/reddit-readies-for-brewing-inter-website-war-bans-links-to-gawker-media/">Reddit Readies for Brewing 'Inter-Website War'; Major Subreddits Ban Link to Gawker Media</a></strong></p>
<p>Creepshots' former members immediately flocked to <a href="http://www.reddit.com/r/creepsquad">r/Creepsquad</a>, set up for refugees of the shuttered subreddit. Now, Mr. Martin has also confirmed to Betabeat that Reddit administrators have decided--without moderator request--to ban Creepsquad as well. It went dark around 8 p.m. this evening.</p>
<p>Mr. Martin, who is still on the Reddit Open Internet <a href="http://thenextweb.com/insider/2012/09/11/reddit-launches-midwest-bus-tour-campaign-open-internet-asks-donations/">bus tour</a>, declined to elaborate why the subreddit had been banned.</p>
<p>Earlier this evening, the moderators of Creepsquad published a photo of Jezebel journalist Katie J.M. Baker to the front page of the subreddit, perhaps in an effort to intimidate her. Ms. Baker has been the target of Reddit backlash following a <a href="http://jezebel.com/5949379/naming-names-is-this-the-solution-to-combat-reddits-creepshots">story</a> she published yesterday featuring an interview with the anonymous woman behind Predditors, a Tumblr that publishes the personal information of Creepshots members who have been publishing photos of women without their consent. <a href="http://www.predditors.com/">Predditors</a> was removed by Tumblr, but has since been <a href="http://betabeat.com/2012/10/tumblr-reinstates-predditors-the-controversial-blog-publishing-personal-information-about-members-of-rcreepshots/">reinstated</a> after a Tumblr spokesman said it was mistakenly believed to be revealing private information. Tumblr users have been passing around a <a href="http://fuckyeahreborns.tumblr.com/post/33410822048/master-list-of-reddit-creeps-pedos">master list</a> of the "Predditors" after the author password-protected the original Tumblr.</p>
<p><strong>Previously: <a href="http://betabeat.com/2012/10/tumblr-reinstates-predditors-the-controversial-blog-publishing-personal-information-about-members-of-rcreepshots/">Tumblr Reinstates Predditors, the Controversial Blog Publishing Personal Info About Redditors Behind Creepshots</a></strong></p>
<p>Ms. Baker appears to be taking it all in stride. "Flattered that moderators of r/Creepsquad respect me enough to put a photo of me on the main page of their subreddit!" she coyly <a href="https://twitter.com/katiejmbaker/status/256514068356149248">tweeted</a>.</p>
<p>The removal of Creepsquad by Reddit admins comes as somewhat of a surprise. In an <a href="http://www.buzzfeed.com/jwherrman/reddit-general-manager-explains-why-he-wont-ban-c">interview</a> with Buzzfeed earlier today, Mr. Martin emphasized that Reddit does not remove content unless it violates one of Reddit's five <a href="http://www.reddit.com/rules">rules</a>. That implies that Creepsquad was removed because it violated one of those tenets, though he did not offer any details other than to admit it was removed by administrators.</p>
<p>There is precedent for banning subreddits. Last year, Reddit found itself embroiled in a <a href="http://www.nbcnews.com/technology/technolog/reddit-bans-sexual-images-children-teens-157880">controversy</a> over r/jailbait, a subreddit where users posted sexualized photos of minors. Reddit subsequently <a href="http://www.reddit.com/r/blog/comments/pmj7f/a_necessary_change_in_policy/">updated</a> its policy to include a new rule.</p>
<p><strong>UPDATE: </strong></p>
<p>Reddit community manager and site admin David Croach has banned Potato_in_my_anus, the maturely-named user who created the now-banned subreddit Creepsquad. In a thread on Subreddit Drama, Mr. Croach <a href="http://www.reddit.com/r/SubredditDrama/comments/11c4j3/admins_have_shadow_banned_upotato_in_my_anus/c6l5w5o?context=2">wrote</a>:</p>
<blockquote><p>Regarding PIMA's ban...</p>
<p>There are actually a lot of rules that we (the admins) recently found out when we investigated his (PIMA's) account that he had broken. The most recent one was creating a subreddit that disregarded the rules of reddit regarding sexualizing teens/minors, and not being active in moderating posts that broke that rule. He's had multiple offenses in that category.</p></blockquote>
<p>Here is a screenshot of the photo that Creepsquad posted of Ms. Baker, without comment, to the front page of the subreddit:</p>
<p><div id="attachment_66153" class="wp-caption aligncenter" style="width: 322px"><a href="http://nyobetabeat.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/screen-shot-2012-10-11-at-6-22-10-pm.png"><img class="size-full wp-image-66153" title="Screen shot 2012-10-11 at 6.22.10 PM" alt="" src="http://nyobetabeat.files.wordpress.com/2012/10/screen-shot-2012-10-11-at-6-22-10-pm.png" height="673" width="312" /></a><p class="wp-caption-text">(Photo: Reddit)</p></div></p>
]]></content:encoded>
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